A conversation on Lygia Pape

SG: How important was woodcut technique at the time she was starting to make art, and what were her influences?

PP: Lygia worked initially with oil painting, charcoal on paper and enamelled copper jewelery, among other materials and techniques. In woodcutting, she found a greater capacity for quick and agile experimentation, like her personality, allowing herself a greater exploration and expression of ideas in the construction of the work. In 1954, Lygia created concrete artworks simultaneous to the woodcuts, such as the paintings with tempera, Pinturas (paintings) and the wood works Relevos (reliefs), which became remarkable in her career. Despite this, it was through woodcutting that she moved away from the rigor demanded by the Concretism of the period, and from the Grupo Frente (Front Group). The woodcuts presented the base ideas that would become the conceptual foundation of Neo-Concretism: sensibility, expressivity, and subjectivity. Lygia did not have influences that are very direct in her work, however, she had a great admiration for certain artists who made her question things and formulate new proposals such as Malevich, Mondrian, Barragan, Morandi, Magritte, Duchamp, Turner, Albers, Volpi, and Goeldi, these latter two being her personal friends.

SG: Where did she get her materials, such as paper, or ink?

PP: At that time, due to the lack of access to materials, the support between the Brazilian artists and the sharing of information and materials among friends was an important constant. Through their travels, friends would bring new materials. Lygia had friends who would bring paper and ink from Japan for her woodcuts, and the wood was from Brazil. Many of the inks that she used were brought by my father, Günther Pape, who was a chemical engineer in the early 50s. He even developed his own inks with imported pigments for Lygia, which were also used by some Brazilian artists like Hélio Oiticia and Ivan Serpa.

SG: Most woodcuts are unique, or unique variants of very small numbers. What were her thoughts on serial work and editions?

PP: Lygia thought that it was almost impossible to repeat the same exact print; the ink changed and as it was difficult to completely clean the woodblock, and the woodgrains would fill and change. The result printed on paper inevitably changed. She embraced that characteristic of woodcutting, and explored precisely that: the modifications in each print. Even if they were made from the same block, they were different—unique or unique variations.

SG: Did she make woodcuts throughout her career?

PP: Lygia made the majority of the woodcuts during the 50s and 60s, but it was a technique that she returned to from time to time. Some of the intrinsic characteristics of woodcutting, such as the question of the line as something that unites or separates, and the importance of full and empty areas that are quite visible in the Tecelares, become formal and conceptual questions greatly explored in her works throughout her life.

SG: This work in particular has color, but most woodcuts are monochrome. How important was color in her early years?

PP: Color, as much as the monochrome, was always important to Lygia. The reason she initially worked with Tecelares in color stems from research into questions of transparency and the contrast of shapes that are overlaid. I think she sought the limitless possibilities of woodcutting with the support of color. The woodcuts would develop toward the monochrome later, when the possibilities in color that interested her were exhausted, and she moved on to concepts linked to the void in opposition to the printed space. Color was always present in the work of Lygia Pape, like in the ‘Livro da Criação (Book of Creation)’ (1959/1960), ‘the Livro do Tempo (Book of Time)’ (1969/1961), ‘the Amazoninos’ (1989/2003), or even in the works in neon, such as ‘Olho do Guará (Guará’s Eye)’ (1983/1984), among many others.

SG: Was it a conscious decision or the result of an economy of medium?

PP: Lygia never needed to save on materials. It was a conscious decision. It was a conceptual question. She would then move toward geometric abstraction.

SG: What personal memories do you have of Lygia? Did she talk about these particular woodcuts?

PP: I was not born when she made the color Tecelares. But these works were always in my sight: I could hold them, I got to draw in some of them, and there my mark remained, as well as my sister’s. I grew up and lived surrounded by these works; in our house and the studio, which was one floor below. I attended many exhibitions and was able to see many of these color Tecelares displayed. I recognized the importance they had to her. At 11 or 12 years  of age, I really started to understand my mother’s work. It’s a visual affective memory... they were everywhere and you never forget them. When I started to work  with the artist in the 80s, photographing her works  and actions, and a decade later, together organizing the work in order to create the Projeto Lygia Pape in the  2000s, we obviously spoke a lot about her work and the Tecelares were always extremely important in the wider context. The Tecelares were present—they were the  artist’s trademark, included in almost every show. These two works in particular retain all the intentions and questions that were described about the color Tecelares:  the importance of overlays, inclusions, and transparencies of colors or shapes, are well marked here.

SG: Is there anything you have discovered when studying the woodcuts throughout the years you have been in charge of Projeto Lygia Pape?

PP: I learned and discovered a lot about Lygia’s creative process and her intentions by organizing the Tecelares. As I was organizing the archive, first with her and after 2004, practically alone, I understood that I had in my hands something much bigger than just the physical works. I had the whole creative process of a terrific artist. It’s really fascinating, as I am still discovering a lot about her thinking as I go into the documentation left behind. Recently, a new review of the Tecelares surprised me. I discovered even more about her creative process. It’s an extensive body of work; future generations will certainly discover other details that might not appear right now. There’s still plenty to discover in such a rich body of work that Lygia Pape left us.

Lygia Pape’s Tecelar works are part of Hauser & Wirth’s presentation at Art Basel, from 13 – 16 June 2019.